Sin

Originally posted - Friday, December 15, 2006

THIS IS FROM www.SKEPTOID.COM. THIS IS THE WRITTEN TRANSCRIPT FROM A PODAST REGARDING SIN. IN THE COMMENT SECTION AT THE END, I PLACE THE SAME COMMENT THAT I POSTED ON THIS MAN'S SITE. THIS GUY ANGERED ME BECAUSE HE TAKES THE TYPICAL "OBJECTIVE" WAY OF ARGUING UNTIL HE COMES ACCROSS SOMETHING HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN HE CAN SIMPLY MAKE FUN OF THE BELIEF SYSTEM BECAUSE IT'S "OBVIOUSLY" CRAZY. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT OBJECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHOD THAT WE CHRISTIANS WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE TOWARDS EVOLUTION? THIS IS THE KIND OF CRAP THAT I TALKED ABOUT WHEN I DISCUSSED UNIVERSITIES. THEY HIDE BEHIND OBJECTIVITY WHEN THEY "JUST ASK" THEIR QUESTIONS WITH NO "INTENTION."

November 26, 2006Podcast transcript Listen Subscribe

This week, I'm going to put on my burgundy velvet robe, fill my martini glass, and observe that bastard stepchild of the value system: Sin.
Sin is an interesting thing. A sin is something you're not supposed to do, according to a given set of religious restrictions. Sins are not necessarily illegal. Sins are not necessarily wrong. Sins don't necessarily harm anyone. In fact, many sins can be completely, entirely harmless, like the thinking of impure thoughts. So what's the problem? Why are sins bad?
I guess that all depends on whose definition of "bad" you use. For example, if you're a Muslim, it's sinful to get urine on yourself. The rest of us follow this commandment pretty strictly too, but we certainly wouldn't consider the odd dribble to be sinful. Buddhists consider skeptical doubt to be a sin (though they call it a hindrance), but doubt certainly isn't a problem for Christians or Muslims. Most Christians consider polygamy to be sinful, but it's the rule for most of Africa and the East. So there's no one clear yardstick for determining what's sinful or not. It depends completely upon the religious context. Outside of a religious context, the word sin is, for all practical purposes, meaningless.
Christians in particular consider everyone to be sinful, regardless of their performance. They call this "original sin", and it's essentially a negative blot on your report card immediately upon birth. Since Adam and Eve had the gall to eat some fruit that was offered to them, you and I and everyone else are considered guilty by association and are thus fundamentally bad people, according to strict Christian doctrine.
Christians also have to deal with "mortal sins." A mortal sin is one that, if left unrepented, sends you to hell when you die. Christians don't maintain a list of what types of sins guarantee you a date with the devil, instead they lay out some general rules. The big sins, like murder and adultery, put you on the fast track. Mortal sins have to be done deliberately. If you simply forget to go to church, accidentally put on a condom, or unintentionally catch a glance at a hot chick out of the corner of your eye, such sins are called venial sins and you can get away with them. But if you do them deliberately — blow off church on purpose in order to saw some extra logs on Sunday morning, wear the condom on purpose, or deliberately stare at the hot chick with impure thoughts — they are mortal sins. If you do things like this regularly, strict Christians consider that you are hellbound for sure. There are probably a lot of human males who needn't bother wearing their jackets for their burial.
Worst of all is the "eternal sin" - to deny God, which cannot be forgiven. Those considering an eternal sin might as well lose a fiddling contest to Satan right now. The punishment for an eternal sin is the same as for a mortal sin; the difference is that there's no opportunity to be forgiven and get out of it. It's sort of like being on death row in a state where the governor doesn't have a telephone.
When you eliminate activities that injure others or are otherwise wrong, there are still items on the sin list: basically a long list of victimless crimes. This is where the fun begins for those of us not hampered by religious restrictions.
Take social relationships, including plural marriages, same sex marriages, and anyone living together or having sex outside of wedlock. It doesn't hurt anyone, everyone involved has a great time, and it's mutually fulfilling for all participants. But those activities are all pretty high on the sin list. Take it out of a religious context, and suddenly there's nothing wrong with it. Polyamory is also a victimless crime that for some reason is considered sinful: wife swapping, swinging, hedonism, group sex parties, and open marriages are things that all the participants enjoy behind closed doors. Where's the harm?
Straight sex between married partners is all right, so long as it never extends to include masturbation, fetishism, lust, or impure thoughts. "Have to stop a minute, Mabel, I started to feel a little lusty."
The list of sins is not static: it's even been updated to include cybersex. Using a computer in some way to enhance sexual stimulation is sinful. This includes a video chat session with your spouse when one of you is traveling. That makes a lot of sense.
Drunkenness and tobacco are big on the sin list. This one's just plain counterproductive. Who among us doesn't appreciate an evening at the club in an overstuffed leather chair, with a martini and a fine cigar, talking politics and blasphemy. Throw in some profanity (which, fortunately, I don't see on the list of sins), and you've got the perfect evening. Drunkenness and tobacco are fundamental to healthy male adulthood. Frankly, I don't even know how I'd be able to conduct a proper board meeting without these accoutrements.
Idolatry is another sin that would be hard for me to live without. Idolatry doesn't necessarily relate to graven images or statues of other gods; idolatry is the practice of loving anything or anyone more than you love God. For me, the brand names Porsche and Jeep are hard to get past. I do attend church every Sunday morning: My temple of worship is a rectangle at the beach measuring 8 meters by 16 meters and involves the hitting of a synthetic leather ball at other worshippers. And since I cannot honestly say that there are any supernatural invisible flying magicians whom I love more than my own family, idolatry is definitely a sin that I need to commit every minute of every day, as much as I need to draw breath.
Hate and anger are sins. I don't really hate anyone and I don't get angry very often. About the only thing that gets me angry is when I hear the worst of the bad news from the world: children being abused or murdered, and genocides. Apparently, the world's major religions think that I should go to hell because those things make me angry. I'd have to say this is one case where the world's major religions can kiss my ass. I respect how the Amish can overlook these crimes and offer loving forgiveness to even these criminals, but I'll save my applause for the inmates who beat Jeffrey Dahmer's head to death against a prison toilet.
Lying. This one's tough. I don't know how anyone can claim that they don't practice this sin every day, no matter how religious they are. Have you ever told anyone that you can't go somewhere, or can't do something, when the truth is you simply didn't want to? You're a liar. You ever stop talking about someone when they entered the room, to deceive them into thinking you weren't talking about them? You're a liar. Ever give someone one of those quick fake smiles when you pass them in the hall — as if seeing them makes you happy? You're a liar. Lies don't have to be spoken and they are usually not malicious, but they're still lies. We all do it, all day, every day. Lying is a fundamental of politeness and a pillar of good behavior.
The truth is the concept of sin has no place in the lives of intelligent adults in modern society. Politeness, honesty, industry, and simply being yourself will take you a lot further. I say to the religious people: Keep your arbitrary restrictions, and your hateful belief that I should go to hell, to yourselves.
Perhaps my favorite aspect of being free of the restraints of sin is that I get to make the following invitation: If any hot women out there want to join my wife and I for some raging topless hot tubbing, well cooled with margaritas and free of any Catholic guilt, give me a call.
© 2006 Skeptoid.com

My Reply


I just discovered your podcast today and found it interesting. Everything I listened to was well argued until I listened to the message on "sin." You seem, for the most part, to take an existentialist approach to discussing issues. This is your approach when you attempt to inform the "Creationists" about evolution. However, you left that "objectivity" behind for this. You openly trash the ideas on sin as if there is nothing to disprove…as if it’s quite obvious your right. I see a little Bill O’Reily in this episode. You make the claim that many "sins" do not hurt anyone. How do you know that? You mention lust ("impure thoughts"). Doesn’t this effect a marriage? Doesn’t sex outside of marriage effect (possibly) the family structure (accidental pregnancies)? You also frame the "Adam and Eve" sin as something like this "they had the nerve to eat some fruit offered to them" as if this was truly the problem. The problem wasn’t eating it; it was disobeying what God had commanded them to avoid for their own good. The whole idea of sin (practically) is that it is ultimately not good for you; thus, you shouldn’t do it. The whole idea of sin (spiritually) is that it is the wedge between God and humanity. Spiritually, sin prevents relationship. Lack of relationship with God is what (speaking of most Traditional Christians) "sends one to hell" as you say. The Gospels lump all SIN together into one "preventive" basket. So for you to discuss the "types" of sins as if one is "okay" but another is damnable seems to be a mischaracterization of Traditional Christianity. (I realize there are technical differences for the purposes of theology, but there is no difference when it comes to its spiritual result). You focus on "acts" of sin rather than what Jesus focused on which was the "heart" or basically one’s relationship with God. There is no New Testament list of sins but only the question of "knowing" Jesus.
You said in your "faith" podcast that believers should believe without trying to prove with science. So I’ll stop trying to prove why sin isn’t good. But I wonder why you’re trying to (not necessarily prove but) "strongly question" its relevancy. Take it by "faith"…right? At least, allow religious people to do so.